People who lead their lives as Zainichi Koreans.
With what thoughts and feelings have they lived, and what kind of life has it been.

Youngdoo) I’m from Jeollanam-do Yeongam-gun. I started theatre in high school. I wanted to study more and moved to Seoul after graduation. I joined a theater and started doing theatre, and during this time I became interested in dance and ended up doing dance. As for Japan, I started having exchanges since 2004. Since I received an offer at the end of last year to make a piece relating to Fukuoka, I am really happy to participate in this project with the attitude of studying the town of Fukuoka, which I do not know at all. Actually, when I came to Fukuoka I didn’t know anything besides tourist sites, and since I don’t know about the region, I thought to study what I don’t know by meeting with different kinds of people before making the piece in Fukuoka, and through the introduction of a cultural foundation I have come to meet with Zainichi Koreans living in Japan. I am glad to be able to meet with you today through this kind of opportunity. Did the foundation of everyone’s lifestyle begin with Fukuoka?

A I am from Yamaguchi prefecture. From Shimonoseki. Many of our fellow Zainichi live in Fukuoka. In terms of the whole country, Fukuoka is a region with many fellow Zainichi.
B For me, 50 years have passed since I moved from Kitakyushu and started living in Fukuoka city.
C I am the only one here who was born and raised in Fukuoka.
D I was born in Kobe and came to Fukuoka when I was married. My daughter lives in Kyoto.

Young) Was everyone born in Japan? Did anyone come from Korea?

Everyone) We were born in Japan.

D Along time ago before the war, my father came to Japan around 1920 to save up money, and my mother came shortly after him. My siblings and I were born then. I was born in a coal-mining town in Iizuka, and I am 86- years- old. Because of that, I am second generation. Among other Zainichi, I have been told it is strange for me to be second generation at my age, but it is because I came before there was a forced migration for labor. So, most people my age are first generation, but I am second generation.

E) My parents were born over there, and I was born in Japan. Since the war ended when I was 6-years-old we came to Fukuoka to go back to Korea but the boat (a fishing boat) couldn’t go out because of a storm, and we have been in Japan ever since.

B) After the end of the war we tried to go back to Korea, and people from places around Yamaguchi and Kyushu gathered in Fukuoka. At first fishing boats were going back and forth but, the storms became awful, fearful, and we weren’t able to go back and so began living in Fukuoka- this is like most people in Fukuoka.

Young) A lot of time has passed, but don’t you think that you want to go back to your native place?

D) I’ve never been, not once. But, I don’t think that I want to go. I still have relatives over there, but everyone has gotten older so, if there is not some correspondence, I don’t think that I want to go that far to meet them. If I wanted to go, I could go soon, but I don’t feel a necessity to go.

Young) Do you all get together often?

Everyone) We get together about 2 times a month.

Young) You know each other very well.

F) No matter how busy we are, we get together 2 times a month.

B) When I was a child, I went to Korea a lot. I sometimes followed my mother to her hometown. The last time I went to Korea was when I was in the 6th grade of elementary school, and it was the last time my two siblings and I went to our relative’s house in Korea. A Korean school was established and I commuted to that school until the fourth grade, but I was not able to go there anymore because of the Japanese police. In those days, Korean schools in Japan were shut down.

F) We were born in Japan but, since our parents kept speaking Korea, Korean was the language of our lives

.

Everyone gathers twice a month, without fail.
Lately, they enjoy watching Korean dramas.

Young) Everyone has been living in Fukuoka for over 50 years but, please let me hear about any inconveniences or good things you have experienced here.

B) In other regions it is hard when typhoon season comes, but Fukuoka is an easy place to live because it doesn’t suffer that much damage from typhoons. Lately we all get together and enjoy watching Korean dramas.

D) My parents’ hometown is near Busan, so they couldn’t speak the standard language and could only speak Busan’s dialect, and so I was raised listening to that dialect and can’t understand when I watch Korean dramas because they are speaking in the standard language. Lately, when I hear the words that young people are speaking, I completely do not understand what they are saying.

Young) After the war, since Korea was North and South, I think that you had to decide your own nationality but, did you choose either one?

Everyone) Our nationality is North Korean.

Especially now nationalities are divided into North and South, but it has nothing to do with us.
This is because there is no need for hostility.

Young) Everyone gathered in Fukuoka with the intention of returning, but were there people at the time who didn’t want to return to Korea?

D) After the end of the war, if we were in Japan we didn’t know when we would’ve been killed and so everyone was scared and wanted to return to Korea, but my grandfather and grandmother, everyone returned to Korea after the end of the war, but since just my father has children, even if he returned to Korea he would have had to make a living, and so he had to make those preparations (He had to make the foundation of their lifestyle from nothing). He thought to make those preparations and then return to Korea, so he stayed in Japan in order to save money.

Eventually he got older, his children got bigger, and it became unnecessary to return to Korea. And so, we didn’t return to Korea and my father said he wanted his grave to be in his hometown (Korea) upon his death as his last request, and so my mother took his bones to Korea. There she was making preparations for his grave, but while my mother and others were going back and forth, packages and money were being sent. So, the person who was preparing the grave for her wanted this money and was arguing with other members of the family, and when my mother become unable to go there, he stopped maintaining the gravesite. There was a lot of trouble with those family members but in the end it was about money.

B) It is not necessary to change one’s nationality to visit Korea once or twice. My children are all of Korean nationality. There is no need to change their nationality to go to Korea. Everyone gets together up to 2 times a month, but everyone is not of the same nationality, and we don’t really care about that. We do things together like sing songs, exercise, and have parties at the end and beginning of the year. Now the countries are divided into north and south, but since we were of Korean nationality before this division, now there is no hostility even if the country is divided into two.

Young) What kind of lifestyles are all of your children leading?

D My oldest grandchild is married, my second oldest is a high school English teacher. One is a dancer in a musical revue led by Zainichi in Tokyo. The younger one is a teacher in a Korean school. The younger son is also a teacher in a Korean school.

C) My father came to work as a peasant in a farming village in Kurume to save money before the war. From there, when he was making a steady living he called my mother over and she started living here. I was born at that time.

Young) During a poor childhood, did you have instructions from your parents to remember or protect something?

D) That was a time when eating was the highest priority, so there wasn’t that sort of thing. My parents soon sent the money they saved in Japan to Korea, and there wasn’t any money in our household. That was when people were buying fields or mountains. And so, they sent a lot of money to Korea but eventually they weren’t able to go back after the war, and the money that they had sent became useless. They ended up not seeing each other.

Especially because of being in Japan, Korean customs were taught strictly.

Young) For you and your children, did you think it was obvious to marry people of the same country?

D) In our era, romantic love itself didn’t exist. It was a time in which it was usual to marry the partner whom our parents had chosen, even if we have not met them.

C) It was also a time when they wanted to marry off their daughters quickly to lessen the number of mouths to feed.

B) 84-years-old. My birth, upbringing, and schooling are all in Japan. I learned Korean at night school after I passed 30. There I learned the words and the alphabet. I could listen to Korean since my parents were speaking it, but since I couldn’t speak it, I learned it here. Everybody acquired the Korean language in this way.

D) In that era, even though we could speak Japanese there was a household rule that you cannot speak Japanese at home. (They spoke Korean in the home) This rule was strictly enforced at the home in which I was married. When I was married I only had two changes of clothes, and we had to eat together. Especially because we are in Japan, Korean customs from long ago were taught strictly. Since my husband didn’t know this situation, he said things to me like “why not eat together?” Since Korea and Japan were both in that kind of era.

As for Korean schools in Japan, North Korea gave assistance to the schools in the 1970’s, but Koreans in Japan also did things like invest their own assets, because they had to provide funds for the school, and since they couldn’t build the school in the city center, they cleared land in the countryside and even did the work themselves. There were also people who were successful in business and invested their money there,

B) Because the Korean school in Iizuka was in a coal-mining town, there were a lot of Koreans. The coal mining culture disappeared, students decreased, and because education in Korean schools is not compulsory, and even though the second and third generations do not know about Korea, it was even difficult for them to learn about their country. Since there was no money to send children to Korean schools, students decreased, and 3 years ago Iizuka’s Korean school was gone.

The basis of their lifestyle is Japan, but marriage is a different story. The biggest reason is because they are used to their lifestyle with fellow Zainichi.

Young) Did your children marry Japanese people? Or did they marry Zainichi Koreans?

Everyone) They married Zainichi Koreans.

Young) Were they told to do so?

D) I think that since they are too used to their lifestyle with fellow Zainichi Koreans, isn’t it hard to deal with living with a Japanese person? They are too used to an environment that is not Japanese and not Korean, it is neither, and so if it is not a fellow Zainichi, then there is a difference of feeling.

A) That’s how it used to be, and recently it is completely romantic love.

Young) Among your children, is there anyone who was married to a Japanese person?

A) My two sons both married Japanese people. It’s because my two children both work in Japan and so they only socialize with Japanese people. That’s a natural thing.

C) Even if the person is Zainichi, since there are people who went to Korean schools and they are also people who went to Japanese schools, it’s natural that this divides them.　　There are also people who have an international marriage, but they have difficulties with the law. That is, the born child will be Japanese. Japan made the law in this way in order to get rid of Zainichi.
(*Currently, when the birth registration is sent to the Korean side, the individual can acquire a double citizenship with Japan)

D) I socialize more with friends who live near me than with family. I also socialize with Japanese people a lot. There is an image that Japanese people are bad but that is completely not the case when you actually get to know them. That’s all talk from the media or the government, so it is not on the civilian level. I value interacting with and greeting fellow citizens.

Rather than far away family members, another person nearby.
There is no difference related to the town where they live; Only their nationality is different.

Young) Is there a difference between all of your lifestyles and Japanese people’s lifestyles?

D) I don’t know about other Japanese people, but at least in the town where I live there is no change at all. It’s just that only nationalities are different. That’s what I believe.

G) In my case I belong to two associations for the elderly, and I go to a Japanese elderly association and a Zainichi elderly association.

D) It’s necessary to make it so that we have an equal standing, say if I take one thing, I give one back, reciprocally.

Young) Where is the real difference between Zainichi and Japanese people? Isn’t there a difference between the real intentions and their public stance?

I don’t know a person’s real intention, that is inside of them, but I don’t have that kind of discriminatory consciousness. A long time ago various kind of people, Japanese, Korean, lived in the same place, like a tenement, and they lived while helping each other, but now people living together in the same apartment have lost that kind of exchange. I think it was good before, as people had a lot of exchange among themselves.

Young) In order to know about Fukuoka, this has been a chance for me to know the real thing. Since it is inexcusable for me to listen to all of your stories about the past and leave, I would like to do a traditional Korean dance while playing Korean music. I will dance a folk song to a piece of music called the song of youth.

The performance setting will be Kyushu University, which contains Japan’s history.
By meeting him at this time, we could envision how the creation would unfold.

Tsuda) I am originally not from Fukuoka, and my hometown is Hyogo prefecture’s Awaji island in Kansai. I socialized with Zainichi people around when I was in junior high school. This is not at the Awaji island where I lived as a boy, but really close by some of my helpful male relatives were living in a place with Korean people. I remember that on the opposite shore of a nearby river there was a community of Korean people. Other than that, in junior high school my friend went back to North Korea, and then his name was no longer “Kinoshita” but it changed to “Paku,” and this sort of thing happened often. Also because it is Kansai, this sort of thing was familiar. But of course the other side of the river near my relative’s house left a lasting impression on me. They were raising pigs, so at the same time that there was the smell of pig, in February pretty costumes like chima were left out to dry, and the scene of those costumes dancing in the wind was a really memorable scene.

Young) You took me to a variety of places like the viewing platform, or the place where an airplane crashed, but why did you think of taking me there?

Tsuda) The person I am now is made up from my child memories, like the ones I just told you. Our bodies are made up of things like what we have seen or what we have heard, and I think Kyushu University also probably came about in this way. So instead of me wanting you to see the buildings of Kyushu University, how can we perceive the history of Kyushu University? For example we just talked about the phantom and about the vivisection done at the school. But, there was the Kyushu University that for some reason had to do that, but because the buildings that have stood here since long ago have seen everything, the bad along with the good, I feel like memories are jam packed in those buildings.

Young) It was a really great time for me. I was just moved by your words that various experiences and what we see make us. In Korea there is also war, so as far as old buildings in Korea, there aren’t many left. Since there is the ideology of capitalism, there is a focus on new economic development rather than protecting important buildings or important memories. So, there aren’t that many old buildings left like in Japan. There are those kinds of old buildings in the minds and hearts of Korean people, but we cannot feel it with our own hands or confirm it by actually going to see it. Therefore, although we cannot see the good memories and the bad memories carved into these historical buildings, I think it is a waste if the important buildings full of history standing here disappear.

Tsuda) I also think so. In Fukuoka, there is also the side of easily thinking to get rid of these buildings that we want to keep for the sake of efficiency. It’s a little different than Kyoto’s old towns, and this trait is probably a side of Fukuoka that I dislike.

Fukuoka is a pretty good place. But, there are few professionals.

Young) How many years have you been in Fukuoka?

Tsuda) For about 30 years. After I went to a University of Education in Fukuoka, I was aiming to go to Tokyo University’s graduate school, but I spent about 6 years dilly-dallying, going to Nagoya, Kansai, and whatnot, and in the end I settled down in Fukuoka.

Young) Now, your job is teaching students in Fukuoka, and are the dreams and aspirations you etched out when you were young different from the dreams and aspirations that young people have now?

Tsuda) I think the students now are clever and have a clear outlook. They aren’t dumb like us. (laughs) In all kinds of ways, our values and passions had a degree of instability to them, but I think people now have become more stable.

Young) If we assume the students now have become more stable, is that because they are afraid of some kind of change?

Tsuda) It’s not the case that their sense and sensibility is inferior. For example, if it is a dark place, you can adjust the light to the dark place and properly perceive it. But, it is just that you are shifting to a dark place. So, if you ask if the field of perception is vast or narrow, it is becoming narrow but, in a very dark place, in the very middle of it there is a little bright spot, and there is a little wavering. And they are going to go on shifting it. The instability is little, but they are perfectly shifting

Young) Is that sensitivity?

Tsuda) Yes, they are more sensitive than we were in our day, and they are choosing that. If there is little instability, I feel like they understand for themselves if it will waver based on where they shift it to.
That is, rather than knowing oneself well, they understand what part they are in. That is understanding one’s position well, not one’s possibility. There is the feeling of showing the utmost sense in one’s position. But there is also the point that they aren’t really thinking about other possibilities.

Young) Even with liking Fukuoka on the whole, is there just one part that you cannot approve of?

Tsuda) Rather than not being able to approve of something, I think that it is much better than other places. I think it is a fairly better place than Tokyo, and often there are people who say that there is nothing in Fukuoka or information doesn’t come through here, but I don’t think that is so. Just, for example, when there is like an art-related job in Tokyo, there are many professionals, and so when the job is ordered it can be done quickly by a professional. But there are still few of that kind of professionals in Fukuoka.

Young) Oppositely, is there something in Fukuoka that you couldn’t be without?

Tsuda) Yamakasa festival. (laughs) But, Yamakasa festival is also probably the thing I hate the most. When the festival is held there is a really heavy feeling, but when the festival floats come out I think that I wouldn’t be living in Fukuoka without this.

I want them to make a piece that they feel convinced about.
Everything begins from there, so the talking ends.
I want to see that kind of piece.

Young) Tsuda, what do your children want to be when they grow up?

Tsuda) Now she is saying that she wants to be a painter. I am telling her that she won’t make any money, though. (laughs)

Young) Is the dream that you wish for your daughter the same as the dream that your daughter wishes for?

Tsuda) I think that they are probably totally different.

Young) What kind of work do you want your daughter to do?

Tsuda) I think that it’s good if there is one thing that one can continue doing until death, and I am not really thinking “do this.” I want her to properly think about her future, and I also want her to work, but I think it is also okay to separate one’s career from one’s life work. There is no idea about working in order to make a living.

Young) I don’t live in Fukuoka, and I don’t have that much information about Fukuoka, but I have to make a piece in Fukuoka. But, there is so much that I don’t know that I am a little scared now. I have the confidence that I will make a good piece, but since I don’t live in Fukuoka, and I am not Japanese, I came to Fukuoka, and I am groping for what I can make, what I can do here. Of course, I will make the piece just as I have felt, but for Mr. Tsuda now, if there was only one piece that you could see, let’s say that was a piece that I made. What kind of piece would you want me to make?

Tsuda) That would be a piece that Youngdoo himself feels convinced of. I think a piece that seems like it came from Youngdoo is the best. I bet that is where it will start, and it’s good if all talking ends there.

Young) Now, I am meeting with various people, hearing them speak, and getting hints for my piece, but I think that I will make a story, create a piece about the Fukuoka that I myself thought of, after all. Is there any place in Fukuoka that you want to show to me?

Tsuda) There are several. There is an old apartment in Gokushomachi called Daikokusou. Also there is a small apartment from early Showa period that is near Kushida shrine called Gion apartment. Then in the Hakata machiya area around Gokushomachi there are places like Shofuku-ji or Jotenji, and since there are a lot of Zen temples in Fukuoka, there is probably something in that sort of place that feels like Korea.

Young) I probably can’t go this time, but next time I come I would like for you to show me around.

Tsuda) Sure, let’s go. I was going on adventures in the back alleys of Hakata, so I will show you around. Now, there are fewer back alleys, but…

In the Hakata dialect “Ohman” = “Don’t mind”
Pass that kind of Hakata temperament to other countries, and onto Japan’s young generation.

Young) This is an extreme, but if we assumed that out of the whole world only Fukuoka is peaceful and comfortable, and from here if there was only one thing that you would like to suggest to the whole world, what would it be? Oppositely if we assumed that only Fukuoka was a poor and hard place, what sort of thing would you like to bring in from another country?

Tsuda) In Hakata dialect there is a word “Ohman” and I think that is probably close to “No problem” “Don’t mind” or “Not so but it’s so easy,” and people in Hakata have that kind of temperament. Same as these words, We also have the phrases “Daitai Kogenatode Yokacchanaito?” and “Yokayoka.” I think it is good to take these ways of thinking to places outside, and it would be good if Fukuoka’s young people also had them.

Young) If we were to bring something from another country into Fukuoka to make it better, what do you thing would be good to bring in?

Tsuda) A cultural center, someplace to cultivate culture. I think that an art center is the most necessary. Not just because I am doing it, but because there is originally an element of art in Fukuoka. There are a lot of traditional crafts like Hakata puppets or Hakata weaving. When you go to Busan, there are several movements to place value in traditional things. So I think it would be good if we did that sort of thing.

Young) Oppositely, is there something that Fukuoka wants to tell Asia?

Tsuda) History. I am always thinking that we had better precisely tell that sort of thing. Including political things and various problems, and its not the case at all that I am suggesting to leave behind or shut in bitter history- I think that we had better take the stance that we should tell the reality. However, there are many people in the country of Japan that do not want to talk no matter what because of political problems, but there is also the bad point of us not telling that history to young people now. I think that we should go on talking about it, and I think that we have to make a device for young people to grasp that sort of thing amongst themselves. I think it is wrong if we just say “Come because we have good things” or “We brought culture so please come and look at it.”

What I want to know is “Just one thing” that is inside a human being.
Now, the singular set of values for you to be able to have in Fukuoka.

Young) If you were to compare the country of Japan to a human being’s body, what body part would it be? Then, please tell me why you think so. I think it is difficult, but it’s because I want to know what kind of image you have. Could you think about it lightly for me?

Artist 1) I think it is the heart. That is because I am making this place the base of living. I lead my life here, an even if I was to live in a different region, I think this place would still be the base, so it is the heart.

Artist 2) By the process of elimination, I think it is probably the eye. Or it would be the nose or the mouth. If we take it as that, I have nasal inflammation so my nose doesn’t work really well (laughs) so maybe the mouth. That has the meaning of eating, and coming to Fukuoka, if we talk about what I want to satisfy when I am meeting with my friends, there is no place to excite the eyes, so I guess it is the mouth. You can eat delicious things and make people happy.

Interpreter) I think it is the belly. Fukuoka is a second hometown for me. As for the belly, no one is conscious of it, but I think it is an important part. It is in the center of the body. It feels like the belly.

Young) Okay, this time if the whole earth was a human body, what body part do you think Japan would be? I think you can’t eliminate the fact that you are Japanese from your sentiments, but try to not be conscious of that as much as you can, and what part do you think it is?

Artist 1) When it becomes earth-scale my way of thinking changes a little, and since my grandmother is from Jeju I think about that, and although I was not born there, my grandmother’s hometown is in Korea, and so I am always conscious of that. I don’t really think that I am pure Japanese, and because I am always conscious that I am not 100% Japanese, and it is difficult to think about the earth as a human body but I would like to think that I have Korea and Japan in both hands.

Being able to feel the good points that they didn’t know about this town
After leaving Fukuoka once and then coming back.
Wanting to search for the possibilities as an artist in this town.

Young) Then, I have thought of a question again. If you were exemplify Korea as a human body inside the earth, what part do you think it is? You don’t have to think so hard about it, a light answer is okay. Image-wise, what kind of feeling do you get?

Artist 2) I think that my consciousness has changed in the past 2 to 3 years. And that is because I became able to speak Korean and my contact with others increased and so I think that a part of my body has been made that was not there before. I think that it wouldn’t be this way had I not made contact, but I think it came out because of the contact.

Artist 1) Hand? Because there are various meanings, and there are many things that I want to know. Probably the feeling of wanting to grasp with my hand.

Young) Yesterday, I asked this to a different person, “If 99 out of 100 things in Fukuoka were things you didn’t like, and there was only 1 thing that was good, what do you think that would be?” When I asked this, I was told it was love.

Artist 2) I think so, too. If it wasn’t there I couldn’t do anything. Working or living. Especially because I can think of it as my girlfriend’s hometown, even if there is a part I don’t like, I can forgive that. Of course, now I can see other good parts besides that, but 4 years ago I think that was the one thing.

Artist 1) At one time I didn’t like Fukuoka, and I left, but at that time I knew nothing about Fukuoka. I came back and I got to know things that I didn’t know, and I thought this is a good place. I thought it would be good if I could make this my base for my activities as an artist. I left Fukuoka with the assumption that I would become an artist in Tokyo, but I came back and thought that I would try and see how much I can work as an artist with Fukuoka as my base. Probably that is mostly because the environment where I settled down was good.

Young) If we were to say that there was something that you wanted to bring from the continent (Asia), including Korea and China, for the sake of Fukuoka or Japan, what would that be? Not just objects but something, including things like philosophy or culture, which you think that if you brought it people would be able to live prosperously and happily.

Artist 1) I sometimes think that Japanese people are a little weak in things like vitality, or that kind of strength, when compared to the continent. It is not everybody, but because the weak part of Japanese artists is that they cannot clearly assert themselves, I think that it would be good if there was more of that, but I also think that if that happened the good parts of Japan would also be lost, maybe. It’s difficult. (laughs)

What they want to export from Japan is the sense of hospitality.
There are no manners or rules; there is the heart that considers others.

Young) Oppositely, if you could transmit one thing from Japan to the continent, such as China and Korea, what kind of thing do you think would be good?

Artist 2) For example, when you go to a restaurant, the people at the restaurant take care and do a lot of things to be hospitable to the customer. Of course, I think that human beings have that sort of thing on hand to some degree, but I think Japanese people are very precise towards that sort of thing. That sense. Not Western etiquette or rules, but a heart that thinks of others when people come into contact. I think that is a part that is absolutely not in manuals or rules.

Young) If we assume that there is something that we could bring from another country and into Japan for its own sake, What kind of thing do you think that would be? Or, is there something that you don’t want to enter Japan?

Artist 1) What I don’t want to enter Japan are things like nuclear weapons or war arms. Because there are none in Japan.

Artist 2) I want various things to come into Japan. Then I want to see what Japan will become. Refuse or except it. It is probably interesting to see. If everything is rejected, nothing new will happen. Just now you asked “what would be good to bring into Japan?” I think maybe it is good to bring anything. Because Japanese people will be the ones to effect change from there. Then, I think it is good if they try to experience it, try to sense it, and recognize if it is a good thing or a bad thing. Because if I encounter something delicious or poignant overseas, I think that I want to tell my friends or people I know about it. I think that is not re-arranging something so that it is Japanese style, but instead bringing it in as it is, and seeing how it feels. I feel like that way is more human.

Young) When I think from the situation in Korea, now Korea is rapidly chasing after new things, and this destruction of various good things from the past for new things are reflected in not jut things but also in the ways of thinking. Since there is a feeling in Korea of running to the edge of capitalism, I think that I want that sort of thing to disappear.
Even in the art sector of Korea things are rushed, as if someone is saying faster, faster, and there is no flexibility to prepare carefully and build something up. In that meaning, from Japan I want to bring that flexibility, or rather that feeling of carefully creating. I think it is good if artists could create in this way. What you just told me about caring and consideration for others, since I can feel it whenever I come, I think it is a good thing and I think that is something I would like to accept.

A Zainichi Korean who succeeded in business in Japan.
His secret to success, and the feeling unexpressed on his surface.

Naomura) I was born in Korea, and after the war, I came to Japan when I was 8 years old. That was when I was in the 3rd grade of elementary school, so 50 years have passed. Since I was born in Seoul’s Mabo, my mother, sister, and I, the three of us came to Japan. I had almost totally forgotten Korean, but since I thought that I would do mail-order of Korean goods for my job, I had to remember Korean all over again. My mother is now 91 years old. My father passed away when I was 3 years old. Since not a single photo was left of him, I was all my mother had, and so I tried really hard in Japan. 30 years have passed since I started this job.

Young) You have been doing mail-order for 30 years, and mainly what products do you deal with?

Naomura) Among products for daily life, mostly cleaning products. It is because these can sell no matter what the economy is. During Japan’s bubble economy, things relating to precious stones and watches were the main product, but from a long time ago I wanted to deal with something that I could constantly sell, plus I don’t have an eye for precious stones, and since I didn’t have interest, I didn’t deal with things that would sell explosively.

Young) What do you think about how the products that you bring spread among Japanese households? It is just a product, but also sometimes that family becomes happy, and aren’t there also times when the household culture changes?

Naomura) When the Lehman shock happened, I assumed there would soon be an influence on Japan, and I put two price options for the same product. When I put out the two propositions, I had to sell the products cheaply because of the Lehman shock crisis, and I decided to sell them at less than one-third of the price. People in the company and the broadcasting office were worried, but the cheaply set price was a success. Especially because of the Lehman shock, I had an opportunity to re-think about how to make business.

Young) When you find new products at a convention and buy them, aren’t there times when the product that is actually delivered is different?

Naomura) That happens too many times. (laughs)

Young) Isn’t it that you can trade with China, Korea, and Japan, because the company president knows the cultural characteristics of each country?

Naomura) In the case of trading for Japan, in the case of recently producing in China, I oversee the manufacturing and until the inspection of the finished product. Since the sense in that area is very different between Japan and China, I think that if it is not managed precisely, you can’t sell it in Japan.

Finding a job in Japan was an obstacle. For this reason, he shifted to starting his enterprise.

Young) Is there something in which you feel a difference between Japan and Korea?

Naomura) In Japan the relationship between master and apprentice for artisans has been properly retained, and there is still a culture of that being inherited.  I think that is a very wonderful thing.  In contrast I feel like in Korea that sort of relationship between master and apprentice is disappearing.  For Zainichi, finding a job was an obstacle.  So I started this company, and in my company there is no discrimination, and Chinese people and Korean people are also here.  I think due to the spread of the Internet that classification of nationalities has gone away.
When I was 8 years old, I came to Japan, and when I was an elementary school student I couldn’t communicate at all, and I clung to my mother.  There was also a time when after I was beat up by classmates, I went to the beach, faced in the direction of Korea, and shed tears.  After I became a junior high school student my body got bigger and I had a rebellious spirit, to the point where I beat up the classmates that beat me up.  From a certain time, I saw that the name of a criminal on TV was a Zainichi name, and I felt that as a Zainichi living in Japan, I should live seriously.  The reason is because the country that raised me is Japan.  Now, I always go to Korea once every 1 to 2 months and visit my family’s graves.  In Japan I visit the graves of my mother’s side of the family.

Zainichi living in Japan had almost the same situation, but since there were examples before us that we could succeed if we tried our hardest, like Masayoshi Son, and for my own goal, I saw people who had succeeded like that and I thought that I can do it to, and so I tried my best.

Young) After the war, there are sometimes periods when relations between Japan and Korean become worse, but what do you think about this?

Naomura) Now, I naturalized and became a Japanese person, but I think that disputes happen easily when countries are close in distance, and it is difficult to have good relations.  In order to become a country with the same standing, it is necessary to have  the same economic power of a high-power country.  This cannot be forgotten in regards to the history of Japan and Korea, but it is not necessary to always show this on the surface.

For methods of getting information, there are several on the table.
However, one should experience it for himself, without fail.

Young) Whenever I come to Japan, I study something and go back.  If it is Korea, it is a country that has the driving power to quickly implement an idea after it is put out there, but I think that Korean people should study the customs of Japanese conversation, the customs of a calculating way of doing a job.

Naomura) It’s too bad, but in Korea there was courtesy towards one’s parents or the elderly, but I feel like those have gradually disappeared.

Young) Do you have family?

Naomura) My oldest son is 30 years old, and my oldest daughter is 27 years old.  My oldest son is doing internet- related work at my company, and my oldest daughter is a singer.  I came to Japan, got married, had children, and made friends around me, but I thought about succeeding in Japan and then returning to Korea, but now I think like that was an impossible idea.

Young) This is an idea from me, but as for products that are popular recently, we can’t know how someone will use the product as seen from the side that is making it, and we can’t know who is using it as seen from the buyer’s side.  I think it would be interesting if we could actually know these things.  If we could trace from a product’s manufacturing in China until it reaches the consumer, I feel like something unexpected would be found. 
I am a human being who does dance, and I am doing this kind of project while I am going back and forth between Korea and Japan.  Could you give me some words?

Naomura) Start from the question of “Why” for everything carried out in Japan, and please make a standpoint that attempts to take in and understand that from a cultural standpoint.  There are a lot of ways to get information, but no matter what, I recommend that you experience things for yourself.

What kind of town is Fukuoka city?
Several things that he wanted to know to make a piece in this town.

Municipal Official, Okuda) Positionally Fukuoka and Busan straddle the Korean Straight and face each other.  As a matter of course, there was movement back and forth from a long time ago.  In the case of Fukuoka, it is mostly reclaimed land, including the city center, and a long time ago there was a harbor called Sodeminato, and with this harbor as the center Hakata’s merchants did trade with Korea and China and the town prospered.

After that, Toyotomi Hideoyshi divided the town of Fukuoka into districts, and this is called “Taikoh Machiwari.” This division was similar to Kyoto in that the frontage, width, was narrow but the depth was large, and it is said that this made the prototype for Hakata.  After this kind of town prototype was made, Kuroda Nagamasa made Fukuoka’s Chikusen a whole country, and established that daimyo’s castle as Fukuoka castle.  With that Fukuoka caste as the center, a river flows through the center of the town, on either sides of this river there were two towns- the people of the castle lived in a samurai town called Fukuoka, and the people who go by Kyoto were in Hakata, the merchants’ town.  After that, in the Meiji period, when they established the city, there was talk about whether to make it Fukuoka city or Hakata city, they took a vote, and the result was that Fukuoka city was established.  From there, it is getting bigger as it annexes surrounding areas little by little.  Just when Fukuoka had gotten in order to some extent, there was the Second World War, and at that time the entire town around here was quite burned up by the war damage.  Then, the war ended, and most of the town now is the town planning operations from post-war reconstruction, which is building roads and re-doing residential areas.

In addition to that, they also filled up the land in the ocean little by little, and the town of Fukuoka came to be as it is now.  From there it got bigger as a town, and about just before the Korean War Shimonoseki and Fukuoka became the gathering places for those returning to Korea.  There were many people, who gathered here to return to Korea, but the Korean War happened and there were quite a number of people who couldn’t go back to Korea, and therefore Fukuoka is a town in which there are a lot of North Koreans and South Koreans. From about that long ago until now people are going back and forth, and it’s become a town where they also live reciprocally.  One feature of Fukuoka’s city planning is that there is the airport, an entranceway to the sky, in a place nearby the city center.  The entrance to the sea is towards Hakata/ Chuofutoh, and the bullet train running from Hakata station is the entranceway to the land.  These three entranceways join together, making this an easy town for people to come and go.  I think that internationally there are few places that have this many modes of transportation joined together. 

Also, the so-called city center and the sub city center, which interpolates it, are made in a Y-shape.  When you put together the city center and the sub city center, in a new base formation on the east and the west, there are Island City and Kyushu University.  Kyushu University is 1 of only 7 imperial universities from a long time ago, and it is a school with many international students from Korea and China. 
Fukuoka is a well- balanced city with a moderate degree of ocean, mountains, and agricultural land.
All over Japan the number of people is declining with an aging population and declining birth rate, but Fukuoka has the prediction that the population will continue to increase until Heisei 47 （the year 2060）.  Now the population is about 1.48 million people, but at its peak it is predicted that it will exceed 1.6 million people.  The population will increase but we will try to make it that nature is unaffected by people as much as possible, and we will put forth an effort to maintain and improve the buildings in the town center.  While there are various problems inside the city, the current mayor Takashima will start with tourism and have people come from overseas to Fukuoka, and so we are putting effort into servicing the area around the port in the hopes that Fukuoka will be the place of arrival and departure for tourism in Kyushu.
Since there is no big river in Fukuoka, there is also the difficult side that we can’t invite a factory that uses water in large amounts, and so the base of our idea is that we want to build up the town with tourism as it’s number 3 industry.

Young) I now know something that I didn’t know at all before.  Thank you very much.  The city workers are making the foundation for the citizens’ lifestyles and an environment in which they can work, an environment that supports them in working, gaining an income, and living.  I think it is a very fortunate city.  This is about advancing the operations of making Fukuoka into a city of tourism, but I think by doing so it will cause various harmful effects- what is the thing that you are the most worried about?

Foundation Staff Member) From the cultural side, the bureau will become the culture and tourism bureau from this year because of adjustments in the organization, and even the bureaus who were doing only the promotion of culture will be put together into one bureau of “Tourism.”  As the strategy has changed, in addition to promoting culture of the citizens as the bureau has done, we also have to aim for the economic result of attracting tourists.  There are a lot of various cultural associations locally, but promoting the original culture and attracting tourists are two different things, aren’t they?  Other cultural foundations have been raising a voice of concern, saying that by trying to attract tourists, perhaps what we have tried our hardest to do genuinely until now will be thought of as a little dishonest.

Young) When you aim for the structure of the city, what do you think of the most when you make it?

Municipal Official/ Okuda)  Speaking of structure, we decide the roads at the beginning in Japanese city planning.  We decide the roads, and then we make the buildings while looking at things like the volume of traffic.  If we said that in terms of the human body, the bones are the roads and the muscles are the buildings.  So, since even if we put on a lot of muscle the bones will quickly break if they are weak, we think while perceiving that balance.  So, first we make the roads, and then we decide the volume of the buildings, a way of thinking called city planning floor space index.  In that index, the business district is a district that allows the construction of buildings that are 4 to 8 times the area of the lot.

If we compare the entirety of Japan to the human body, Tokyo is the brain, Fukuoka the right eye.

Young) Mr. Okuda, how long have you worked in the municipal office?

Municipal Official/ Okuda) It will be 18 years since I started working in the municipal office.  I was in Tokyo before Fukuoka, but I wasn’t a government worker.

Young) Can you tell me some differences between Tokyo and Fukuoka from your point of view?

Municipal Official/ Okuda) Tokyo is like if Fukuoka’s city center spread far outwards.  Since there are only the areas of Hakata station and Tenjin in the city center of Fukuoka, and because people and institutions are concentrated there, I think that Fukuoka is easier to live in than Tokyo, in regards to the centralization of amusement facilities and business institutions.

Young) Just now, you made the example of the structure of bones and muscles, but if you thought of Japan as one human body, what part would Fukuoka be?

Municipal Official/ Okuda) If we go with the parts of the body, Tokyo is the head, and then next comes Osaka and Nagoya.  In Japanese textbooks those areas, including those cities, are called the three largest metropolitan areas, and then the Fukuoka metropolitan area is always ranked about after those three.  Therefore, I guess it is the questions of what is the fourth most important part of the body.  Next, it is necessary to be able to communicate.  Based on that, if we assume that the next level is that we see things with our eyes and recognize them, and then we put forth words from our mouths and communicate, Fukuoka is the right eye, I guess.  The left eye is probably Sapporo (laughs).

Young) I am really interested in the relationship between the growth of a city and the growth of human beings’ lifestyles, but even in Seoul or Busan it is not always the case that lifestyles will become abundant when majestic roads and tall high-rise buildings are constructed.  I can’t think that humans’ happiness grows in the same degree as when the shape of the environment in which I live is rapidly built, after all if it’s that “City development = Happy,” then people living in New York, or people living in London, people living in those kind of cities should naturally be happy, but now tribal people, like those that live in the forest have a much higher level of happiness in comparison to people in the city.  Instead of jut the city being developed by a plan, don’t we have to think of some different form to give happiness to the people living there?  From a different viewpoint, I think that city development is not just constructing buildings, but there is something else that has to be thought about, isn’t there?  Regarding that, I think that parks and business districts are also made from the people living in Fukuoka, but are you thinking about something other than that? 

Municipal Official/ Okuda) Just as you said, naturally there are various value systems about whether a city is good or not.  When you ask what a city plan is planning, the city is something that is made when people gather, and if there is not some kind of rule there it is very difficult to live.  First, I think the move to get ride of the problems of difficult living is in the beginning of the ideology of city planning.  It is important to decide basic rules in order to make it easier to live there.  In the middle of this we decide what things can and cannot be built along the skeletal road system while color-coding everything.  Of course, like you said there are various institutions, and it is the job of administration to drop various things that were in that decided plan, regarding the point of what kind of institution people find value in.  For example, when an institution is built, if it is the case that it should be near a station where people gather, then it will be built near a station- I think this is done in each respective station.  I can understand Mr. Young’s opinion, and I think that it is our job to do the best service for the citizens while talking with each other and freely expressing these kinds of opinions in the municipal office.

Fukuoka, from the outlook of “Tourism,” aims to be the arrival and departure point for Asia.

Young) Since I am an artist, I can do what I want to as my job, but I suppose that it is difficult for those in the municipal office to comply exactly with what the citizens say.

Municipal Official/ Okuda) When civilians make a cultural institution, there is a proper system for hospitality, and that is something that we request from the cultural side, and that those in city planning also consider.
Regarding the part of the conversation when you talked about what is happiness, I think that the city is diverse.  People gather here because various things can be done.  As one of those, I think that the cultural component is an important factor, and that is properly put into city planning’s point of view, and that sort of policy is also in our vision.

Young) Aren’t there times when you can’t strike a balance between your own individual values and your values as a city official?  Isn’t there a difference between your values and the city standards? 

Municipal Official/ Okuda) Of course there are, but so long as I am a government worker as my profession, I suppress my personal feelings as much as possible.  Of course, if there is a time when it is okay to speak my opinion as an individual I will say it, but when that is not the case I don’t think well about expressing my personal opinion as a public standpoint.

Young)  Is there something that you want to do from here on out?

Municipal Official/ Okuda) There are many things that we want to do, but since no matter what it costs money, something has to be done fiscally first.  Whether it be making the cultural institution that was mentioned before, or making a plan to blossom as a city, the incoming tax revenue is limited, and so if there is no effort to raise the tax revenue, we can’t invest in the things we really want to invest in.  There are a lot of things we want to do, but I think that what we put as our maximum priority out of the money in our purse is decided by society’s state of affairs, the issues recognized at that time.

Young) Thank you for teaching me many things that I really didn’t know before.
I don’t know if it is okay to say this sort of thing, but it would be good if we could talk while drinking somewhere.  If you have any free time in Fukuoka, please call me. (laughs).

Sato) Just by looking at a map I can tell that Fukuoka and Busan are really close, but is there a consciousness of Fukuoka within Asia?